Jordan Oakley — DIY BABES ZINE

Sharing Ideas Through Punk Rock

From being a nervous kid performing in year 12 to touring Europe multiple times, Jordan's punk ethos aims to push music culture forward and for the better.

Check out Jordan Oakley's interview below.

By Billie Estrine

Fri. Aug 2 2024

Credit: Mitch Pink

Where did you grow up?

I grew up in Melbourne, mainly in Coburg, which is a semi-outer northern suburb. I lived there for about 20 years. I guess now it's been gentrified a bit, so people kind of consider it the inner north, but it's not that inner. It's a great place, a multicultural place. A lot of Middle Eastern people live there, and [there was a] huge Mediterranean migration in the 1960s, so there is heaps of great food.

What inspired you to start making music?

It's hard to really put my finger on it. I didn't grow up in the most musical family, compared to some other musicians I know. My parents did play some music around the house. They're both into music. My Dad, in particular, is pretty into all kinds of '70s Dad Rock, Crosby, Stills & Nash, and Steely Dan, which, when I was younger, I thought wasn't that cool, but now I have a lot of appreciation for it.

At the start of high school, which is different here, I was 13. I remember me and my parents living in this guest house at the time, which was basically one small room. I was pretty bored all the time; I didn't have much to do. It was school holidays, and my Dad had this old acoustic guitar. I was so bored that I said, "Dad, can you teach me guitar?" He did, [and he] taught me a few things.

That was around about the same time as Guitar Hero and Rock Band came out. I became obsessed with those games. Learning guitar, starting that journey, and learning some of the songs I had liked listening to over the years in the car with Mum started it, and it became an obsession.

Eventually, [I] started just playing stuff in the music room at high school. I went to a very small high school, but there [were] a lot of freaks and oddballs there. I was able to make friendships based around sharing and discovering weird music and playing it together, which was really nice.

Did you have a favorite song to play on Guitar Hero?

There were so many. Maybe Metallica, I think "One" was on there. That blew my mind a bit. Then, Beatles Rock Band came out, and I loved playing that. Some people would think it's lame learning to play music from Guitar Hero, but that's what started it for me.

Yeah, it's a really fun place to start. As a kid, there's nothing better than playing Guitar Hero. When did you start playing live music?

Aside from a short saxophone stint in the primary school band, I started through high school. A little bit was going on, school performances and music nights. But it wasn't that often, and I was always so nervous. I remember doing my year 12 exam, and I had to perform in front of three people; that was terrifying. Then, going through a couple of auditions for uni, the whole thing just really scared me. Performing was never really something for me, but I did it because that's what you do when playing music. I thought maybe I could just be a writer because my hands would shake when I would try to perform live.

There was a small stint in 2013 and 14 when I joined my best friend Adam's band Gee Seas, and we played a few shows around town but the whole gigging world was pretty foreign to me at that point. I didn't really know what it entailed or how to do it.

In 2018, I decided to give live performing another go. I'd spent a lot more time in the scene, had met some really lovely people, and would love watching my friends form new bands and pick up new instruments. That really inspired me to give it another crack. And I got over some of the nerves eventually.

What did you study in university?

I did jazz composition, which was a non-performance-based stream. I was mainly behind the scenes and wrote songs under the guidance of my teacher, having to use specific jazz arranging techniques. Then, every week, an ensemble would perform the scores that the other composition students and I had written. There were only six of us in the whole course, so it was a really small part of the jazz stream there.

The performance students were the ones [who] got most of the glory. A lot of them were the best players from varying south-eastern suburban grammar schools; there seemed to be some fairly big egos floating around, and they were all pretty competitive. I wasn't confident whatsoever and terrified of the whole thing.

I only fell into the jazz degree because I misread the course, and I thought there was a popular music stream, which I think there is now, but there wasn't one then. It turned out that there was only classical or jazz, and I applied for classical because it was called something like 'Western art music,' and I didn't get accepted because I didn't show in my application that I could write anything in that style. But I had a jazzy song I'd written for one of my year 12 subjects. And then, after they rejected me, I emailed asking how I could improve my application, and they said, 'Oh, you could do the jazz stream if you like!'

I was thrown into this intense world of big jazz players and trying to write music for them. My teacher didn't like the techniques I was using because they didn't fit the historical jazz way of doing things, which I found to be a bit too rigid. I didn't have the best experience there, and it's nothing about the course. It wasn't particularly for me, and it was after I graduated and I'd been hanging around the punk rock and dance music scenes that I found my people a bit more.

When was your introduction to the Naarm/Melbourne underground music scene?

Well, I could count 2013 as a bit of an introduction, but it was brief, and there aren't that many people I still see nowadays that I would see back then playing shows. So, I would say it was more 2015-2017, the early days of Amyl and the Sniffers, Woohoo, Rhysics, Wet Lips, and Cable Ties. I fell in love with that whole scene. It was just awesome.

Yeah, I'm a big Cable Ties fan.

Oh, great! They were probably the big one for me, and Nick, their bassist, has been a big mentor to me. I have a lot of respect for them.

How would you describe the community created by the Naarm/Melbourne punk scene?

It is a very big community. At times, it feels unimaginable. You can't put any borders on it or one singular description. It's so chaotic, but that makes it amazing and beautiful.

The community that I'm in, based around punk rock and associated genres, is pretty beautiful on the whole. I think it's quite diverse. People have pretty good politics. It's hard to sum up, but I'm excited by the great DIY spots that are operating now, like D'shut, SPIT, and One Year. They play integral roles in fostering the underground community.

People look out for each other a lot, too. It's also really tied together by all of our venues, which share some similar values, and community radio, 3CR, PBS, 3RRR, and SYN, especially. It's this amazing fabric and network of progressive music.

But I also have a lot to say about ways that it could be better because it's definitely not perfect.

Do you think there's something political about creating a community?

You could try and create a community that is apolitical. In this case, it's an alternative to the norm or the status quo on the whole. There are people in the community that probably enjoy elements of the status quo and don't want to question it. Maybe we can nudge them to question it a bit more.

It's so chaotic. How does this community start? Where does it begin, and where does it end? It's kind of impossible to describe, but a lot of good stuff is happening.

Has music helped you build community?

Yeah, the music community has welcomed me in. We're sitting in PBS right now, and I remember volunteering here in 2018, just finished uni, and wanting to be part of the community even more and dedicate as much time as possible to it. I would be on the reception desk and, again, feeling nervous, but I felt so welcomed by all of the really lovely people here. All the volunteers and staff are passionate about what PBS stands for as a specialist station which is an alternative to mainstream music culture. I felt really welcomed by it, and I joined the community slowly, made new networks and friends, and was so inspired.

Now I've gotten to this point where I feel like my band PINCH POINTS has been able to play a pretty key role in some of the punk rock community. Writing political music, performing that, paying supports properly, and using our platform to promote diversity on lineups is something that has been very important to us as a band.

My radio show, Underground Love, has also been going for over five years and began as a way to support local artists. I would try to play music that I thought wasn't aired on the radio very much or at all. I really wanted to use the slot that I had, which is now in the afternoon, a slot that I think has quite a few listeners, to try and promote what I think is special and important about the Naarm music scene. Also, worldwide progressive music culture. It's been a good journey so far, and I hope it can continue for many more years.

Pinch Points' first album, Moving Parts, explores how personal identity intertwines with a community brought together by music, especially because of the style and ethos associated with punk. Have the aspects of your identity connected you to punk music?

Maybe it's something that I haven't really thought about that much. 'Cause I don't really think about my identity that much in my life. I think about what's surrounding me rather than what's inside. I'm not sure if that is a good or bad thing. Maybe I do need to be more reflective.

In terms of why I was drawn to punk music and the culture, I thought it was a force for good. Growing up as a white cis male, there was a lot of privilege and patriarchal crap that I had to try and process. Also, doing philosophy at uni and falling in love with it was a good way to constantly evaluate my prejudices. Maybe that is some reflection that I've done over the years.

I was always trying to think about ways that I could try and do good in the world. I guess that's how I fell into the punk scene and why I was driven to join and be part of the band. I could try and help make the world better in some small way. So when I came on board for PINCH POINTS, before any music had been released, but Adam had started it, I thought, alright, from the get-go, let's try and book diverse lineups and pay our friends properly. We've done that for six years now, and I think we've done a pretty good job. Also, promoting different ideals through our lyrics helps too.

Same as the radio show. From the get-go, the aim was to play diverse music and not fall back on the thousands of all-male bands there are in the world. There's always more room to improve, but the opportunity to try to foster diversity in the music scene is what has always driven the process.

Can you tell me about PINCH POINTS' recording style?

We recorded at home all the time except for the 2022 album process. We went to Audrey Studios and worked with Anna Laverty, who had worked with The Peep Tempel and Camp Cope, as well as a bunch of other acts. She is great and was also involved in some of the Girls Rock! bands like The Vovos. She is an absolute legend.

Before that, we did it DIY. We thought, "Why not? It's cheap, it's easy." We thought we could have a crack at getting a pretty good DIY recorded sound with Adam in charge of the engineering. We had this room out the back of our house in Coburg, not the house I grew up in, but a share house nearby. This back room sounded awesome with the three amps and the drum kit. We tried to treat it sound-wise a little bit. We were just rehearsing there, and it sounded great. You could hear everything clearly, but when Adam set up some mics, there was so much bleed through all the microphones. Mixing it was hard, but I think it resulted in a pretty good sound. There's a lot of compression and stuff like that, and clearly, Adam was very inspired by a bunch of the other punk bands at the time, like the Uranium Club, who also had that really over-compressed sound.

PINCH POINTS' second album Process, especially at the beginning of the album, weaves in and out of the injustices people face in a capitalist system. What compels you to write about politics and social issues in your music?

Adam definitely started that approach, and over time, we made the project more and more collaborative. Again, for me, it's because I think critiquing the capitalist system we live under is essential, and if you can do it through music, that's a pretty good way to do it. Obviously, a lot more needs to be done, not just music, to try and break that down. But music just seemed like a good way to get through to people, even though it's kind of preaching to the choir in the Naarm scene. We were lucky enough to tour Europe twice and get our music on labels like Exploding in Sound in New Jersey and ETT and Six Tonnes de Chair in Europe. So those were nice ways to spread the good word!

Obviously, our First Nations people here have faced and still do face so much crap, and it's horrible. It can be tricky to navigate how to write lyrics about those issues because there's a lot of education you need to do to approach that in the right way. At the same time, I think it's important to say something rather than shy away from it because it is very complicated. If you don't get it right, that's all right. As long as you learn from it and continue to grow, I think it's important to still have the conversation. All of the non-indigenous people living on this land have a huge responsibility to stand up for Indigenous rights.

Yes there are a lot of good things that I have said about the Naarm music community, but it's still not very racially diverse.

On that wave, I've found that the Naarm punk scene has a very progressive and inclusive relationship with First Nations communities. Can you explain the process that you went through to recognize the importance of this inclusivity?

It's hard to pinpoint when and how. When I was in early high school, this wasn't really something that I would think about. Maybe it was studying philosophy and starting to think more about social justice in general. Maybe it was meeting more people who had more experience. You hang around the right people—or at least people who I deem to be the right people—who are influential and talk about these things. They have had an influence on me.

Thankfully, in the age of social media - Instagram launched just as I was about to finish high school - there are heaps of great resources. If one wants to educate [oneself] about First Nations justice and history, there is a lot out there. So many people are posting about it, including First Nations people and news sources. So yeah, it's been a big and ongoing journey of educating myself.

We do live in a bubble here, and the majority of Australia still, I would say, has really backward [ideologies, which is] not necessarily me trying to say that I'm better than other people. It's about education and being exposed to these ideas. There are a lot of people who just never are because their algorithm does something completely different. Or they grow up in a place that is super [monocultural] in Queensland or something.

Eventually, it ties back to my wanting to be in a progressive music scene and try and do some good. My band Delivery [played] in Brisbane. I didn't play this show with them, but they were on stage saying, 'Free Palestine.' Anyway, someone in the crowd didn't like it and commented on Instagram that she didn't like that element of the set, which was annoying. But anyway, it's good to play music in front of people who have different views, even if they might be fairly prejudiced.

It'd be awesome to tour regionally around all these places and present PINCH POINTS lyrics to people, trying to raise awareness about these things. Not gonna solve the problem, but maybe do some good by helping to expose people to different ideas.

Are your tours in Europe relatively in progressive scenes? Can you talk to more people about progressive issues they may not spend much time discussing or thinking about?

Yeah, it's been interesting to go to Europe and talk about some of the problems we have back here with First Nations injustice. People over there don't really think about it that much. It's pretty cool to go to the UK and absolutely shit on the colonial UK situation. Most people there will be like, "Woohoo, fuck the monarchy."

But it's also inspiring to me, being in Germany and playing with bands or at DIY venues that are super involved in the anti-fascist community. Being in Germany, where there has been very prevalent fascism and still is to some degree. It's nice to learn from people there because it seems a lot more real or tangible in terms of that resistance for people. They can be really radical, and it's really inspiring to get that German or European perspective on anti-fascism. It feels like an important topic right now, too, with the rise of far-right groups around the world, with a big cluster being in Europe.

You touched on it a bit, but can you tell me more about how the mainstream community's recognition of First Nations people is similar to or different from that of the underground community?

If you're talking about commercial radio, which is what most people in the country listen to. They don't even touch on these kinds of ideas.

If you look at AFL, the Australian Football League, which is mostly based here in Victoria but is a national thing now. There are a lot of people who are very passionate about football here, and it's a big part of the identity here in Naarm. The association has, over recent years, tried to do some important work when it comes to First Nations rights and awareness. There's an Indigenous round where teams will change their jerseys to have a design from an Indigenous artist, or they'll change their name. The team Melbourne changes its name to Naarm, which will be on the website, the ladder, and everything for that week. Some other teams have done it this year as well. Things like that are all great despite a lot more work needing to be done.

However, a lot of people who like footy seem to not respond well, even though it's been going on for a while. And that makes me feel so deflated sometimes. There'll be a welcome to country at games as well, where traditional owners will welcome the crowd to their land—their land that we, as colonisers, stole. Again, the crowd and a lot of mainstream media don't respond well to that.

Our national broadcaster, the ABC, obviously respects that and is a lot better than the commercial radio stations. [Still], a lot of Australian people seem to talk shit on the ABC for being biased. It's chaos, and that's why I just feel some shame about being Australian and can get really down in the dumps and annoyed about what the mainstream culture here is.

We had our referendum, [which] was a vote where every Australian citizen had to vote yes or no to whether there would be an Indigenous voice in our parliament. There are a lot of critiques from progressive circles saying that this wasn't going far enough, and that's completely valid. It was a very small step, but I think, personally, it was a step in the right direction. It would have done more good than bad. Most of the country voted no, which is the most embarrassing thing of all time.

I could go on about this for a long time. There are so many people out there who I see on social media or even some people who talk on the radio or talk shows on TV think that people who protest against this kind of Australian colonial crap [say], "They're not true Australians. They should be deported." People get really aggro about it because they're holding on to this way of life that is based around colonialism and white settler culture. There's a lot more I could say about it. This is probably the main issue we face here on this big island.

I didn't realize the referendum was for a popular vote (yes, that's the definition, whoops).

The leading government, the Labor Party, supported the yes vote, and then the opposition was [pushing] the no vote. It created this whole thing where the opposition's no campaign was all about the division of Australia: This vote is dividing us, and therefore, we should vote no. I didn't really understand the logic of that because, yeah, the referendum is dividing us, but I don't understand how they get from that point to, and therefore, we need to vote no. Yes, we are a divided nation, which is bad, but hmm, what is a way that we should move forward? Sounds like having a voice to parliament with actual First Nations people so they can discuss the things that affect them in the parliament; that sounds like a pretty good thing. If that causes division, well, I think the white people here need to take a look at themselves.

That's where the money that goes into marketing and education comes in. The opposition played into the lack of education people have around [this issue] and [made people think] they were doing the right thing by voting no to a divided country. The whole thing was really messy.

Yeah, it's hard when you hold very concrete values to see the rest of the people around you not also hold that in their hearts, especially when there has been so much violence and you are trying to move on and build diversity, community, and inclusion. Then there is the marketing, which is the exact opposite of that.

Pic via Jordan Oakley

How did you become involved in radio?

It was me wanting to get involved in the community in general. I thought radio would be a pretty good way to do that. And we have a really special community radio culture here in Naarm. The stations I mentioned before [are] integral to the [underground music] fabric and the network here.

There are a lot of big cultural cities that I haven't been to, [but] Naarm does seem pretty unique compared to other places. You see so many bumper stickers on cars that have the radio logos. Even going to the community cup on Sunday (Reclink Community Cup 2024), playing for the Megahertz and seeing all the people there coming together to support this community and have fun. It's not just the radio community there; it's greater than that, but it is something that I believe is really special, so appealing to me to be part of it.

It was wanting to be part of something that I thought was really great and special and moved music culture forward for the better. Seeing it as a vehicle for doing good as well through my show and just playing underrepresented music. There are probably other people in the world who could do a better job at it than me, but hey, at least I'm doing something. There are also so many amazing people doing that throughout PBS, 3RRR, and the other stations.

Can you tell me more about the Community Cup? What does it stand for?

It's basically a charity fundraiser. It [wasn't] always a fundraiser for Reclink, but it is now. Reclink runs sports-related programs for people who are facing disadvantages. Sometimes, people find themselves in a place where they have been getting counseling, which is great, but then something like playing a team sport really helps them feel more of a sense of belonging and helps them with their mental health.

It's an important cause. The Community Cup is the Rockdogs, Melbourne musicians, versus the Megahertz, mostly PBS and 3RRR staff volunteer announcers, clashing on the footy field down at Victoria Park. It's usually 10,000 to 12,000 people spectating. There are usually different antics and hijinks on the field. Bands played as well, The Vovos played at the start of the day. There's usually a legacy act; we had Ross Wilson playing this year. Then, Teether and Kuya Neil, and Floodlights at the end. One of the Megahertz players, Ash, played in Floodlights after playing Footy, which is super impressive.

For a lot of people, the Community Cup sums up what's so special about this city. Seeing how many people [are] there and wearing the scarves, you can see they really care about it. It makes you feel like you are part of something that is big, important, and awesome.

I saw so many people on Sunday wearing the scarves, probably leaving the cup. The Progressive Broadcast Service (PBS) raises funds mainly through paid annual membership, but does the Australian government provide any funding to PBS?

No, we don't receive any kind of constant funding from them.

The Victorian government did chip in a little bit when we were moving into this new studio, but that was a one-off thing. We weren't relying on that to get across the line, but we were super lucky to get that.

Otherwise, PBS is funded by some of our local sponsors, who might want to pay a bit to get some airtime, and there'll be a sponsorship message relating to local bars or, you know, things that are of interest to our listeners, not just complete random stuff. Then there are the members, of which we have quite a few. Seeing how many people sign up every year and renew their membership just shows how many people care about a station like this staying on the air, broadcasting little heard music or really niche music.

Is it a political decision not to take any funding from the Australian government, or is it just the case?

Well, it's hard for me to speak on that because I am just a volunteer announcer rather than the station manager or anything like that. So I wouldn't want to speak on their behalf in terms of why we don't. If there was more constant funding that we could have, that would be great, and we could put it to use. I guess it's important for us not to rely on it because you never know when that kind of thing is going to run out.

In my opinion, Victorian music is still very unsupported by the government on the whole. I don't know if this is the best example, but The Tote, a few doors down, went through a whole campaign to get saved by the people. The government didn't help to step in. That is a big, broad issue of the music scene here. As great as it is, [it's also] in dire straits and needs a lot more support and for the government to step in. They'll spend heaps of money to put on a Foo Fighters show in Geelong. I think that money should be spent on local bands and local venues who are really struggling. Venues are closing, and people are burning out and stressed.

Also, if PBS took regular money from the government, maybe there would be some kind of setup where we have to broadcast in a certain way. We wouldn't be as independent anymore because the government would only want to fund us if we could fit certain requirements. That would have to be teased out as well. Yeah, it would be interesting.

How does your radio show Underground Love connect to your music career in bands, PINCH POINTS, Checkpoint, and Delivery?

It's funny because although they're intertwined, they're also separate. I'm not allowed to broadcast those bands on my show, obviously, because that would be very self-serving. I wouldn't want to do that.

Bands I've played with overseas, with those bands I'm in, I play on my show, and it's a great way to be part of the scene and the community through the bands and the radio. In my mind, they're very interrelated because the bands play in this scene, and my show represents part of that scene.

To build more community.

Yeah, pretty much. They're also separate avenues or careers. Whatever my music career is, I am just a person that is involved in music.

On the PBS website, I found that one of the station's goals is combating the isolation of living in a sprawling city. Can you share an example of how the station has achieved that goal recently?

We have events that bring people together, and we broadcast all throughout Melbourne, which is so sprawling. It's kind of wild, literally through that broadcasting signal. It unites the city because anyone can just tune in, text, or call in and become a member. It feels like they're part of the community, and they are. They can come in and volunteer here. Announcers can speak to people no matter where they are. I think that's really special. It's all about the power of music and music curation and what that music stands for. It's so varied across the programming grid, too.

You don't need to be living in a city to access all of the greatness [of] PBS, too, which is really cool.

Check out Jordan Oakley’s many musical endeavors on his Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jordanoakley/#

Billie Estrine

Naarm/Melbourne, Australia

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